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Caros colegas,<BR>
<BR>Completamente de acordo com o colega Arnaldo Cardoso. Também tenho formação na área da engenharia e sou técn SHT nível V. Apesar de ter abordado o tema de segurança contra incêndios na formação de SHT e posteriormente no mestrado, ter usado os métodos Gretner e Meseri, não é fácil dominar estas matérias pelo que para a elaboração de PE, recomendo formação complementar.<BR>
<BR>
Cumprimentos,<BR>
Ana Santos<BR><BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
<BR>
To: hstapt@yahoogroups.com; faqhst@epralima.com<BR>Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:44:07 +0000<BR>From: faqhst@epralima.com<BR>Subject: Re: [Faqhst - InForAdapt] [hsta.pt] RE: Extintores<BR><BR><BR>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Caros colegas,</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Já em minhas intervenções anteriores (sempre polémicas) me identifiquei convenientemente, não pretendo esconder-me, nem muito menos desperdiçar tempo dos participantes no fórum. Aliás, o meu principal objectivo é que todos pensem um pouco no que sabem, no que aprenderam, e, eventualmente, no que precisam de aprender mais. Já mais do que uma vez se interrogaram aqui no fórum competências, até mesmo entre colegas nível III ou nível V… não meu entender não devemos fazer juízos de valor sobre as competências de outras pessoas que não conhecemos.</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sou Técnico (Superior) de Segurança já com experiência considerável, formador em Cursos Nível III e nível V, Engenheiro Mecânico de formação académica.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Conheço bem os conteúdos dos cursos de formação de TSSHT e de TSHT, e sei bem o que digo quando há Técnicos de Segurança III ou V, que não sabem fazer PE.</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Não disse que os planos curriculares dos cursos de Engenharia ou Arquitectura abordam o tema dos PE, o que disse é que “Há engenheiros e arquitectos com competência para elaborar os PE”. Já há muitos anos que existem formações, pós-graduações sobre o tema. Aliás a minha 1ª formação nesta área foi fora da minha formação de Técnico Superior de SHT.</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">35 horas para aprender a fazer PE parece-me muito pouco, quantos colegas podem dizer que estão preparados para fazer PE com esta formação? E Não serve dizerem que fazem PE e que são aprovados por tudo o que são entidades…. Seria bom que o rigor imperasse tanto na realização dos PE como nas entidades que os aprovam.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">No fundo, o que quero dizer, é que as competências para se realizar PE, que bem feitos, devem compreender uma boa análise e proposta de melhoria do sistema de detecção e/ou extinção incêndio, não se reduzem aos Técnicos de Segurança (V ou III), As competências para realização deste trabalho deve ser validada pelo saber fazer, saber fazer devidamente comprovado (não bastando a apresentação de um mero CAP). </SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Quantos dos colegas sabem analisar o risco de incêndio? (métodos qualitativos, quantitativos, Gretener, Purt, Cluzel & Sarrat, frame, …). Quantos dos colegas sabem verificar se o sistema de detecção e/ou extinção de incêndio está bem dimensionado? Se todos sabem, então, peço aqui as minhas desculpas… pelo menos eu não aprendi estes assuntos na minha formação de TSSHT. Se por outro lado, cada um conclui que necessita de saber mais sobre o assunto, então, julgo que facilmente se percebe que os cursos de TSSHT ou TSHT tal como estão definidos não preparam os técnicos para elaborarem PE.</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cumprimentos,</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Arnaldo Cardoso</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">De:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> hstapt@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hstapt@yahoogroups.com] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Em nome de </SPAN></B>Duarte Carmo Vaz<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Enviada:</SPAN></B> domingo, 18 de Janeiro de 2009 12:02<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Para:</SPAN></B> faqhst@epralima.com; hstapt@yahoogroups.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Assunto:</SPAN></B> [hsta.pt] RE: [Faqhst - InForAdapt] Extintores</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Caro(a) AAC,</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Seria interessante identificar-<WBR>se, conforme são as boas práticas de qualquer fórum de discussão.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Importa esclarecer que os TSSHT dedicam 35 das 540 horas do seu plano curricular, a desenvolver o tema de Segurança contra Incêndios e Organização da Emergência.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Desafio-o(a) a partilhar com o grupo o plano curricular dos cursos de Engenharia ou Arquitectura que refere, onde estes temas são abordados, o que não se verificou no meu curso de Engenharia.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Sugiro que a discussão seja focalizada nos <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">perfis funcionais e aptidões necessárias para desenvolver um Plano de Emergência</SPAN></B>, caso contrário a sua intervenção apenas serve para desperdiçar o tempo dos participantes.</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Cumprimentos,</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#1f497d size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Duarte Carmo Vaz</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> faqhst-bounces@<WBR>epralima.<WBR>com [mailto:faqhst-<WBR>bounces@epralima<WBR>.com] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Fórum de Higiene e Segurança do Trabalho<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> quinta-feira, 15 de Janeiro de 2009 15:43<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> faqhst@epralima.<WBR>com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Faqhst - InForAdapt] Extintores</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Boa tarde,</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Não percebo a polémica….</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Há engenheiros e arquitectos com competência para elaborar os PE, ao mesmo tempo que há TSSHT que <B><U><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">não tem</SPAN></U></B> competência para os elaborar porque não receberam formação para isso…..</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Cumprimentos,</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">AAC</SPAN></FONT></B></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">De:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> faqhst-bounces@<WBR>epralima.<WBR>com [mailto:faqhst-<WBR>bounces@epralima<WBR>.com] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Em nome de </SPAN></B>Fórum de Higiene e Segurança do Trabalho<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Enviada:</SPAN></B> quarta-feira, 14 de Janeiro de 2009 9:05<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Para:</SPAN></B> Faqhst@epralima.<WBR>com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Assunto:</SPAN></B> [Faqhst - InForAdapt] Extintores</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bom dia</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Desde já agradeço a ajuda. De facto já tinha constactado que esta matéria seria muito debatida porque existe materia para tal. </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Também concordo com o que foi dito, mas devemos estar atentos aos movimentos dos Srs Eng e Arquitectos que quererão abarcar todos os planos de Emergencia interpretando para isso a lei à sua maneira.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Mas os diplomas legais estão muito melhores assim, compilados!!<WBR>!</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bom trabalho</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">ATT</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dália</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV><SPAN>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=white size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: white">__._,_.___</SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkam4zYmgwBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzQ0NDcyOTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgzNjYzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjMyMjgwMzcw"><SPAN style="TEXT-DECORATION: none"><IMG id=EC__x0000_i1027 height=15 alt="Yahoo! Groups" src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif" width=106 border=0></SPAN></A><BR><A href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hstapt/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmNDEwYjU4BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzQ0NDcyOTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgzNjYzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzEyMzIyODAzNzA-">Change settings via the Web</A> (Yahoo! ID required) <BR>Change settings via email: <A href="mailto:hstapt-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Digest">Switch delivery to Daily Digest</A> | <A href="mailto:hstapt-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery Format: Traditional">Switch format to Traditional</A> <BR><A href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hstapt;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMTJpY3B1BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzQ0NDcyOTAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgzNjYzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMjMyMjgwMzcw">Visit Your Group </A>| <A href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use </A>| <A href="mailto:hstapt-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=">Unsubscribe </A></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Recent Activity</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Y! Messenger</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13ofau9ae/M=493064.12016274.12445679.8674578/D=groups/S=1705083663:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1232287571/L=/B=CIXVBUPDhCk-/J=1232280371300411/A=3848583/R=0/SIG=11umg3fun/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=42403/*http:/messenger.yahoo.com">Want a quick chat?</A></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Chat over IM with</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">group members.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Group Charity</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13omsdbd7/M=493064.12016306.12445698.8674578/D=groups/S=1705083663:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1232287571/L=/B=CYXVBUPDhCk-/J=1232280371300411/A=5579904/R=0/SIG=110vban8o/*http:/www.handsonnetwork.org/">Hands On Network</A></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Volunteering has</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">never been so easy</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Get in Shape</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13psrv0oe/M=493064.12016300.12445692.11323196/D=groups/S=1705083663:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1232287571/L=/B=CoXVBUPDhCk-/J=1232280371300411/A=5170417/R=0/SIG=11b5gu1oe/*http:/new.groups.yahoo.com/specialKgroup">on Yahoo! Groups</A></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Find a buddy</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">and lose weight.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><IMG id=EC__x0000_i1028 height=1 src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=4447290/grpspId=1705083663/msgId=5160/stime=1232280370/nc1=3848583/nc2=5579904/nc3=5170417" width=1 border=0><BR><FONT color=white><SPAN style="COLOR: white">__,_._,___</SPAN></FONT> </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><br /><hr />Instale a Barra de Ferramentas com Desktop Search e ganhe EMOTICONS para o Messenger! <a href='http://www.msn.com.br/emoticonpack' target='_new'>É GRÁTIS!</a></body>
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